Talent is Overrated, Ch. 6, How Deliberate Practice Works

[Stephen Seifert]

Talent is Overrated, Ch. 6, How Deliberate Practice Works

"The specific ways it changes us, and how that makes all the difference."

Everyone (and I won't back up from that) is capable of more than they think that they are. - Dave-M

I COMPLETELY agree. This is really what we're talking about here. I'm not saying everyone can be the best whatever in the world. That's stupid. I'm saying, if you want to bad enough, and you can get out of your own way, you can be the best YOU you can be.

Dave-M HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! Our performance potential is limited by our self-interference. I want to get out of my own way as much as possible so I can get closer to my potential.

When you see someone doing something amazing, you say, "Man, I want to do THAT!" The problem is, as a beginner, you don't really know what "THAT" is.

Even in music, we're all beginners in some respect. You may be an advanced fingerpicker but a beginner when it comes to crosspicking. SO, you're chasing after something and you don't even know exactly what it is your chasing. It's hard for you to know if you can do what they're doing because there's so much you don't know about what they're really doing and how they got there.

What if that someone tells you, "THIS is what I'm really doing and you CAN do this." Why would you trust that someone? What is it they see that you don't? Welcome to chapter six.

[The discussion on Ch. 7, Applying the Principles in Our Lives, will begin Thursday, April 9.]

If you're not sure what this topic is about, please visit:

Group Read - TALENT IS OVERRATED - Starts Feb. 17
http://everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/v ... hp?t=18950

Talent is Overrated, Ch. 1, The Mystery
http://everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/v ... hp?t=19065

Talent is Overrated, Ch. 2, Talent is Overrated
http://everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/v ... hp?t=19143

Talent is Overrated, Ch. 3, How Smart Do You Have to Be?
http://everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/v ... hp?t=19255

Talent is Overrated, Ch. 4, A Better Idea
http://everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/v ... hp?t=19338

Talent is Overrated, Ch. 5, What Deliberate Practice Is and Isn't
http://everythingdulcimer.com/discuss/v ... hp?t=19473

[Stephen Seifert]

Cool Idea #1

Imagine you're an intermediate tennis player. You're almost never ready for your opponents' serves. You've seen the professionals do it. You're frustrated because your reaction time doesn't seem to get any better even with all the practice and training. You start to figure there's something wrong with you. You eventually quit playing.

You were never told you were working on the wrong things with the wrong expectations. You never learned about how a professional will watch hundreds of videos of a particular opponent, taking in how the hips, shoulders, and arms broadcast where the ball's going to go before it's hit.

How many other things have you missed? Not just with tennis. What about every area of your life?

Cool Idea #2

I love the chunk theory. Imagine that you're asked to memorize 19 letters. Impossible, right? Wait, the letters are grouped into words. Now you just need to memorize 5 words. WAIT, the words are grouped into a sentence. Now you just need to memorize a sentence. WAIT! It's not the exact words that matter, it's the idea of the sentence. Now you just need to memorize the idea.

The beginner is memorizing letters. The intermediate is memorizing words. The advanced student is memorizing the sentence. The master remembers the idea. She has learned how to express ideas in many different ways.

I've found this to be true with Irish jigs. I used to memorize the notes. It took me forever and it never really worked. Figured I wasn't cut out for it. Then, I started to see how the notes making up a three-beat region formed a musical word. Then I started to see how these three-beat words worked together with the words around them to form phrases. Then, and this is a big one, I started to discover the words have synonyms. I'm now seeing how great players are more focused on the idea of each phrase and not so worried about using the same word each time. The true Irish masters vary tunes more than we're told, especially when it comes to older players. Forget all the Comhaltas business where everything has to be exact.

How can a master player hear a tune for the first time and start playing along after listening one time through? They're not so worried about notes. More than anything, they're thinking about the phrases that work together to form the story of the tune.

It reminds me of a friend of mine who is a world-class morse code competitor. He's not listening for each dah-dah-di-dah. He actually hears sentences and ideas.

It's just like the English language. You're asking me to pick something up for you at the store. Should I be memorizing every letter of every word you're using?

Be encouraged!

You want to learn how to make the rabbit disappear? The magician you admire is not really making the rabbit disappear. What he's doing is very different from real magic and almost all of it escapes your notice. He's practiced very hard to make this so.

You've really got to KNOW what it is you want to do. You've also got to know what and how to practice. Finally, you must really want it.

Magicians don't tell their secrets except to other magicians. Want to make some magic?

[modulcimer]

By George I think you've got it Steve...... well said. I think that you have expressed the chapter well and really the whole essence of the book.

[TJ]

This isn't about the current chapter, but I just wanted to get this all down, given some of the prior discussion on the book.

I’ve been discussing the book with a few people, and at first I came to a conclusion which I now suspect is flawed.

Originally I thought that this book would only generate tremendous excitement from those who already were the type to put in that kind of work. The book was preaching to the choir, reinforcing the viewpoint of those who already had internalised its message.

Those who won’t be putting in the time would instead talk about how it is a waste, either being inaccurate, or not worth the effort.

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Again borrowing from my involvement in magic/sleight of hand performance, there are quite a few books which deal with philosophy of performance. The modern theory of magical performance was popularised by Eugene Burger, who famously reduced much performance to the “adventures of the props. Oh, look and see what the props can do! Oh, those wacky props!” The core of the books dealt with ways to connect with the spectators, in order to give them a meaningful experience beyond just witnessing the props.

At first I thought Burger’s books were of limited interest, as those of us who were already looking at improving the experience of magic would already be convinced. Over time, though, I started meeting younger performers who had run across the book early in their involvement with magic performance. They felt that the book had put them on the right path, and gave them concepts they wouldn’t have stumbled on for years, if at all.

====

Taking that view, I realise I was mistaken. The book is not just for those who already practice what the studies show. The book can help two groups: people who are receptive to incorporating the ideas into their own activities, and teachers (including parents!) who can help students with putting the ideas into action.

Of course, after having engaged in discussions here and elsewhere regarding what I consider to be minimum skills to be a well-rounded musician, I now accept that not everyone believes in the power of reading and writing to be able to work and think more effectively.

I also accept that not everyone wants to be able to play in time. My view on timekeeping and metronome use is identical to playing slide guitar and tuner use: if one cannot hit a pitch or a beat accurately to begin with, then one will not spontaneously gain that ability. However, if one can be accurate, then one can then do conscious and deliberate variation, instead of just labeling one’s spontaneous lack of technique as one’s style.

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Last thought: I listened to a group of folks (both men and women) at my workplace talking about doing an Ironman competition. Some are competitive with others, some just want to do their personal best. What is missing, though, is someone telling them that they shouldn’t challenge themselves, and that if they didn’t start training at an early age, then there is no point to them striving for their personal best.

As has been noted, self motivation is the one thing one cannot get from an outside source.

And now, back to the book discussion. Cheers!

[Dave-M]

This deliberate practice and the "Playing the blues on a Mountain Dulcimer" discussion got me thinking about how to choose such a curriculum for myself.

Years ago, Robert Force mentioned that when he played with the chromatically oriented, he often used a DAc tuning. I remembered it, but didn't do anything with it. He doesn't even use a 6+ fret and plays what he wants, so it seems worth thinking about what he said.

The practice curriculum that I described in the "Playing the blues on a Mountain Dulcimer" discussion is geared towards development of basic skills for that tuning. Even though I'm on a back to basics (fiddle tunes) course right now, I think that I'm going to devote some time to that curriculum to see if I can make it viable for me. It will take some work; no tab, nobody spoon feeding me. But this book seems to be telling me, "Why not?"

Peace and music,
Dave

[TJ]

This chapter, to me, addresses some of the points brought up in the discussion of earlier chapters; there is definitely a connection between time put in, and being able to perceive and work with ideas larger than the smallest units.

The example of being asked to memorise the letters l-e-x-i-c-o-g-r-a-p-h-e-r, and how it is difficult to do unless one makes the connection between what might seem to be a random string of letters, but then turns out to be a word, is a perfect example of why some can do more with available information. Just like my mentally handicapped coworker, one can eventually, through deliberate practice, get to the point where one can memorise something as a structure and then use that structure to get something done.

This chapter also reminds me of the concept of the memory palace, where one creates a structure in one’s mind to which one ties ideas, concepts and memories. The runner SF from the book uses running times as his structure, but there are so many books on developing neumonic structures in order to remember things more easily.

I know that, musically, I use contour as a structure for remembering melody and chords. For me, the best and most exciting structures (by which I mean memory-worthy) are those which contain contrary motion, but I’m sure that everyone has their own preferences in terms of what they remember best. The interesting idea is that one can decide to memorise any structure, and just put in the practice to achieve it… with deliberate practice and work, of course!

It’s obvious from this chapter that it can be difficult to design a practice routine for developing one’s skills… and it is even harder if one doesn’t know where one wants to go. I know that I wanted to be comfortable in all keys on my main hammered dulcimers, and so I put in the time in learning the scales, modes and interval scales with a metronome. It then takes time to learn how to play those against different chords, but then one has an idea of what one can play against what, and, with practice, how to get to pleasant resolutions at the end of phrases, and so on.

Although they didn’t get into ways of having immediate feedback on music, it is clear that listening to recordings of oneself is a valuable activity. Once one hears a place where one needs improvement, then one can start to break down what activities go into making that place stronger. Is my rhythm off? Do I consistently hit the wrong notes? In those cases, doing specific practice on the problem areas, making those one’s specific practice exercises, can only help. Sure, one might not be able to do it at speed, but to do it perfectly at a slower speed means that one can then start bringing that speed up, just until one starts making mistakes. One can then slow the metronome a little, and get consistently good at playing perfectly, albeit again slower than the ultimate goal.

This book has me fired up, and as I’ve also started doing a guitar training regimen for really learning the fifth-interval tuning, I’m pulling out some traditional Turkish pieces to really challenge myself, and to find practice exercises that will take me out of my comfort zone.

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Incidentally, Stephen, since you bring it up, there is quite a body of work, starting with Tony Slydini and Dai Vernon, and continuing through Tommy Wonder (now gone) and Dan Sylvester (Sylvester the Jester) on using naturalness and body language for the purpose of attention direction (sometimes mistakenly thought of as misdirection). If I told you of how many hours I’ve spent picking up an object from a table, in order to really understand how my body was moving and where my attention was focused, you might laugh. What’s funny to me, though, is that really knowing what my body was doing means that I do those same actions deliberately, and then that poor spectator has no idea that, while I’m picking up my spoon from in front of me, I’ve loaded a softball into her purse in front of her… *laugh*

Cheers!

[foggers]

Yep this book has REALLY got me thinking..... not just about how I learn in lots of different situations, but also, as I am an educator by profession these days, it makes me think hard about how I support students to learn.

I am fascinated by the idea that expert performers have learned "chunks" of knowledge. This issue of higher order thinking links into research about how people learn and why some appear to be "faster" learners" than others. I have always been a fast learner. I keep waiting for my brain to let me down, and when I changed career 4 years ago I was worried that it was going to be too tough being a novice again in my 40s.

But thanks to this book, I am now reflecting back on how I approached this very big challenge, and I can see that I set about learning the "rules" of the new arena (university education ) I had entered, as I realised that it was a different universe from my previous 18 years in public services social work. SO I deliberately took on roles in the new job that meant I HAD to learn the rules (in this case, things like University academic regulations). Knowing the rules (or patterns or systems) means that I can then approach individual problems in a systematic way, thinking through options as I go.

And now that I can see that this is what I do at work, I am thinking about how I transfer this skill in systematic thinking to my progress with music (both MD and banjo and getting back into live performance after a long gap). I think I need to record not just audio but video of my playing so that I can diagnose my playing and spot the areas for improvement. This will enable me to be much more systematic about my approaches to practice.

Stephen - am so interested in the point you make about master tunesmiths and their ability to know the specific musical "language" of a tune, so that they can quickly pick it up and play along. It also explains why some tunes when written down into notation by different people are actually a range of variations. I noticed this a while back when seeking notation for "Soldier's Joy". I must have about 4 different versions, all slightly different but what they have in common is the mode, the phrasing and the harmonics, though the melody shows variation.

Thanks again for introducing me to this very thought provoking book!

[Dave-M]

Riffs and licks. At some point you hear, and remember, phrases instead of a series of notes. Steve Kaufman recommends learning a bunch of fiddle tunes early in your learning because you collect a bunch of licks in your head. It becomes a language, rather than an alphabet.

Peace and music,
Dave

[TJ]

Related to chunks, I've been thinking about the idea of harnessing structures in long-term memory. How long does it take to build such a structure from scratch? Is this part of the long-term, practice-built structure, or is there a way other than rote repetition (with feedback!) to attach something meaningful to something pre-existing?

Imagine that you could learn an exciting new method of, say, chord progression construction, and that you could match it up to something you already know about, like butterfly wings.

I know that, even though autoharp has buttons laid out which can make chord relationships transparent, I can do more when I think of chords as how they lay on the guitar fretboard. I know all the transformations a chord can undergo, as well as the relationships to related chords.

I find that I have to do translations in my head from guitar to hammered dulcimer, and that it takes work. I would like to be able to think chordally on the string plain the same way I think on the fretboard.

What's even stranger is that I just recently converted one of my guitars to a fifths tuning, instead of the fourths of standard tuning. One of the first things I did was to make a sliding chord-building template, so I can look at the entire fretboard layout and see roots, thirds, fifths, major and dominant 7ths, and so on, and see how the patterns interlock. On dulcimer, doing chord work is more exception driven, not just moving a wave of notes up and down on the fretboard. *sigh*

Ah, well, all students hope for a shortcut, and I am no exception....

BTW, I've been working on Bach's first suite for unaccompanied cello, and already I am generating so many practice routines, as well as other tasks I'll have to master... one of which is to be able to fret (on guitar) three strings in a bar near the nut with the pointer finger, and then fret the middle string five frets higher. Looks like there are major finger stretches in my future!

[Stephen Seifert]

I think it's important to realize how greater knowledge in an area can give you more ways to chunk. I chunk in ways a beginner can't imagine. For instance, when I'm trying to remember how a tune starts, I quickly run through tune starts in my mind that start on the root, then the third, and then the fifth. I repeat all that for the higher octave and the lower octave. I've loosely classified tunes this way.

Here's an example of how an experienced musician's perspective can be very different from that of a beginner. When learning a tune by ear, the chord progression tells me what notes are likely to be going on. This is something I learned through extensive study of music theory. Add to that my knowledge of the musical trends of the particular style being played at the moment. All of this information tells me what's likely to occur. Put me in a situation with a different style that functions differently from what I'm used to and I'm just about lost.

When I start playing along with a song I've never heard, there's a WHOLE LOT going on that's not clear to the new by-ear player. This stuff is almost never brought up by ear players. I admit, it's hard to be conscious of all the underlying processes. The same is true in any field. Can any of you elaborate?

[TERIW]

When I start playing along with a song I've never heard, there's a WHOLE LOT going on that's not clear to the new by-ear player. This stuff is almost never brought up by ear players. I admit, it's hard to be conscious of all the underlying processes. The same is true in any field. Can any of you elaborate?

After many years out of classical music, I did not think "musically" or as I would have when I was younger. By "musically", I mean listening for chord progressions or thinking in sequences, steps, or whatever. Most of the music we play follows a I, IV, V chord pattern or a variation of it. Only a few of the songs we play actually change keys midstream.
Applying all of this to learning a new song? It helps to be able to hear the chord progression, so I begin with chords when playing with a group,, primarily because it is hard to hear the melody in large groups, especially if there are other people who do not know the song and they are trying to pick it out. If I am alone, I can either play the melody on the violin or tin whistle to learn it and then pick it out on the dulcimer. Since I read music, I pay more attention to the notes than I do the tab. Playing experience has brought back some theory to memory, but I do not want to get bogged down in it. I am not striving to be a virtuoso. I just want to play as well as I can but also enjoy it as much as I can. FWIW, TeriW